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Re:Faith 22 Sep 2014 18:26 #6618

  • Ian
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There is some confusion about exactly what faith is among many who read these messages, me included, and in the messages it may seem that there is written a contradiction about this, but if we understand what faith is correctly, then maybe there is no contradiction just a misunderstanding on the part of the reader.
Anyway, just as I was writing this post there came to me some words which I have never heard or thought before, if this is true then this apparent contradiction in the messages is no more.

Here we go, short and sweet.
What if, just as there are two kinds of love there are two kinds of faith too, one of the natural love and one of the divine love, if this is true then all that confusion melts away and then we will have something else to ponder over.

I sent an email to Joan after reading her post about faith yesterday, and I mentioned that I too have been thinking more about this subject recently, another thing, I keep bumping into this message, I'll post the whole message since it's not all that long and highlight the part that needs to be understood so as to get a better understanding of just what faith is, and we can put this into practice ourselves.

Here it is.
Jesus writes about, the increase in the love for the Father will help Mr. Padgett both materially and spiritually.
I am here, Jesus:

I come tonight because I see that you are again praying to the Father for the inflowing; of His Love and for faith, and for a nearness to him that will make you happy. I am glad of this new aspiration, and know that the Love will come to you and that your faith will be increased, and your trust in me will be established firmly so that we can proceed with our work. So, I will soon come now and write you another of my formal messages, and I hope that thence we can go rapidly onward.

I have been with you today and know what your feelings have been, and how, in a way you have had faith, that certain things would come to pass without knowing just why - but you have not troubled yourself very much, and expected to secure them at the time needed. Well, I want to tell you that that is the kind of faith that you should have in reference too all the things that affect you both materially and spiritually.

Such faith brings results and you will not be disappointed in your present faith, for what you need will come to you this week. I am here predicting a thing with certainty as I see it; and I do not think you will be disappointed. I know what you mean, and we will help you, only exercise your willpower, and when you feel the temptation come to you very strong, utter a prayer to the Father for help, and you will receive it.

I am glad that you are in such condition of harmony with the Father tonight, and that your love for him is so strong; and with that love will come faith, that will be able to accomplish most anything that you may desire, and that the Father sees is best for you. Yes, you can ask those things with the assurance that they will be pleasing to the Father, and will not be refused you. I would like to write longer but I must stop now.


I will tell you the next time that I write about these two spirits who say they are the first parents of the human race. I have not the time now, and what I may say may be interesting to you and to the world.

So, my dear brother, I will say goodnight.

Your brother, Jesus

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Re:Faith 22 Sep 2014 21:23 #6620

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What if, just as there are two kinds of love there are two kinds of faith too, one of the natural love and one of the divine love, if this is true then all that confusion melts away and then we will have something else to ponder over.


Brilliant response, Ian! Your conclusion is so simple... just as Jesus said his teachings are.

As to the natural love and Divine Love... both loves do have the same attributes associated with each. It's the degree, which highlights the differences. With the higher, more spiritual Divine Love, we get a whole lot more! How awesome is that! :cheer:

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Re:Faith 23 Sep 2014 04:34 #6621

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Everything has gotten better for me ever since I recieve the Love.

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Re:Faith 23 Sep 2014 21:16 #6622

  • Ian
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That's so good to hear Philip, I am so happy for you. :)

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Faith 26 Sep 2014 13:23 #6628

  • Dan
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Regarding faith, I remember a little saying from the past: beliefs are of the mind and faith is of the soul. If this is correct then there can only be one faith as faith has no substance or reality outside of Divine Love. If one were to have what some may call natural faith, it is really nothing more than belief as a river can flow no higher than it's source. The source of the mind is hope and belief as there is no connection to a soul's knowledge of truth upon which true faith is based. This is my understanding of faith.

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Faith 26 Sep 2014 22:05 #6631

  • Ian
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Hi Dan,
Since everyone is an image unless they are transformed into the real then the natural faith (if we can call it that) must be an image of true faith and more than just mere belief.
As Jesus says here.
"Sometime, as you progress in these writings, you will be in soul condition to understand just what faith is, but until that time your faith will be limited by your possession of this Love.
(Mr. Padgett asks a question here.because he didn't quite understand I suppose.)
Well, in my healing of the sick, and the blind and the others of earth, who needed a cure, when I said: "as your faith so be it unto you," I meant that they must believe that the Father had power to bring about the cure; but I did not mean that if their minds merely had the belief that I might cure them, that then they would be cured. Belief was not sufficient of itself, but faith was required."

So did all the people Jesus healed have divine faith, I doubt it but maybe they had some "natural faith which as it seems to me is a faith from the image soul, not divine soul" and not just a belief as Jesus says.
And not to mention the message about Elias that Loren mentioned about Elias' faith which was as you know before the divine love was in the world, maybe this natural faith?
If this is just "belief then I think they would have described this natural faith as just belief.

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