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The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. 02 Feb 2011 18:52 #3940

  • Ian
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Here is an interesting topic to discuss.
From Jesus.
The material laws may be learned from by the operations of the senses that belong to, and constitute, the material mind. But the spiritual laws can only be learned by the exercise and application of the faculties of the soul. The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. And the great mistake that men make and have made is to attempt to learn these spiritual things with the powers of the material mind.

I write thus because I see that you and your friend desire to learn the nature and operations and workings of the spiritual things; and, hence, I want to impress upon you the necessity for exercising the soul perceptions, which will come to you as your soul develops. These perceptions are just as real as are the five senses of the natural mind, though most men do not even know of their existence. And when once you have succeeded in understanding that they do exist and that you may be able to use them, just as you use the faculties of the material mind, you will be able to progress in the development of these faculties or perceptions, with as much success and certainty, as does the great scientist or philosopher in the studies of the things to which he applies the faculties of his material mind.

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Re: The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. 02 Feb 2011 19:53 #3941

  • brotherdavek
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Ian, thank you for your post, as in my progress i have found that unlearning the dependancy taught and learned in the material or mortal world of depending on the mind has been, especially in the last 500 years (based upon Elizabeth Gilbert's research), one of the greatest stumbling blocks to learning Spiritual Truth, either in the Natural Love progression or progression in the Divine Love process. The mind and its processes has been elevate in many places to the level of a very God. To break that dependancy is an almost overwhelming journey in itself, in my experience. Much because how intelligent or "smart" we are is a huge part of many people's self worth construct.

much love to all, brother dave k.
Prayer must arise from the soul of humans. The response must come from God. There is no other means by which this Knowledge can be obtained. All Knowledge of things spiritual, that humans think they possess, coming in any other way cannot be relied upon. There is only One Source of such knowledge out of which the Real Spiritual Truths of God emanate.

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Re: The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. 02 Feb 2011 20:14 #3942

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Brings to mind a message that is very specific in the experience shared.

April 14th, 1918

I am here, Spinoza.

I desire to write a few lines, if you will permit. I need not say that I have never written you before, for you will know from the difficulty that I have in writing that such must be the case. No, I am a stranger to this method of communication, and to you. To me it has come, in very recent days, as a wonderful revelation.

I do not intend to write upon a subject of any great Truth connected with our spirit life. Merely to say, sufficient to introduce myself, in the hope that when I am better acquainted with the Laws governing this method, I may be permitted to come to you and write of those things, which I have learned since becoming a spirit. Which to learn, when on earth, would have been not only very desirable, but also very important.

I was, when on earth, a philosopher, so-called. Gave many years of my life to the search for Truth, relating not only to the natural world, but also to what I conceived to be Truth connected with that world, or existence outside of and beyond the sense world. In my researches I was guilty of many speculations, which I now see have no foundation upon which I had built many conclusions and postulates. I had only the intellect, supplied in its workings by the knowledge that came from the phenomena of the purely physical. As I thought, by that great faculty called reason, which, as a fact, is a wonderful faculty. In its exercise, it is dependent upon, first, its own development. Next, whether that development has been along the lines of, and in accord with, Truth.

A reason, merely because it is a reason, is not a guide that can be depended on. For reasoning in an erroneous way must necessarily lead to conclusions of error. Merely calling, or believing, that these conclusions are the results of reason, does not justify the belief that the conclusions must be correct and veracious. Reason can be mistaken, and featured by error, just as can the senses. Hence, if you read the writings of the philosophers, metaphysicians, also scientists, you will find that things declared, and accepted, by these humans at one age, have been, repudiated and rejected by the successors of these humans in later ages.

So, when I wrote, and I wrote considerably, was very largely read by what was considered to be the thinking class of humans, especially those whose researches led them along a similar line of study and subject matter as my own. I declared certain doctrines, or principles, connected with these metaphysical and philosophical matters, that I now know to be wholly erroneous. Which at the time, I firmly believed to be things of verity, because largely they were based on what I thought was the true workings of reason, together with some little empirical knowledge.

From this, I do not mean to decry the value and importance of the faculty of reason. It has been the great factor operating progress of humankind. Like other finite faculties, it is subject to erroneous exercise, and cannot be depended on as a thing infallible. The common experience of humans has shown that humans, who have sincerely, earnestly and constantly, exercised their reasoning faculties, have arrived at different and contradictory conclusions as to the same principles, or subject matter. Those conclusions have been entirely satisfactory and convincing to the respective persons. Now it is apparent that in such instances, all of these humans could not possibly be correct in their conclusions. In many cases, not any of them were correct. Yet they were all founded on the reason, properly and intelligently exercised, as they supposed.

No, reason is fallible. It is not a thing of itself, but dependent upon environments, and sometimes inherited, or preconceived, ideas of what Truth must be. It is the great friend and defender of speculation. Without it, speculation could not exist. And so often is speculation deceived by its friend. Truth is that which exists as an unchangeable condition or fact. Speculation can neither create, nor destroy, Truth. Reason is a means, which may be used, to reach Truth when knowledge does not exist. The fact that reason exists, does not mean that it is always used in that way that leads to the discovery of Truth. Reason, as I am now justified in saying, is but a creature of God, just as is everything else in His Universe. When given to human with the freedom of exercising it, as human wills, is subject to all the possibilities of defective exercise that every other faculty possessed by human is subject to, and is no more infallible in its nature than are these other faculties.

It is the greatest faculty that human has as a creature of the Almighty. Without it, some of the wise of earth have said human would be no better than, or different from, the brute animal. This is not quite True, for human is possessed with that which is, Really Human them self, that the brute animal does not have. That is a soul, made in the image of its Creator. It may be said that reason is merely an appendage of the soul. I have justification in asserting that the soul, in its progress, can do without, or cast aside, this reason; without doing harm to itself. Because, as I have learned in progressing in the spirit life, the soul may, and does, arrive at that degree of development where reason is not necessary, or even used by it, in its acquirement of Truth.

I now believe, and without speculation, that reason is a gift to human, to be useful to them only in their earth life, and in a portion of this spirit life, until the soul comes into a Knowledge of Truth by the exercise of the mere desire to know. A knowledge of the whys and wherefores is not required. It knows because it knows. Just as in your earth life you have a knowledge of the sunlight, even if you do not know the why, and the wherefore, that produce that light.

Well, my newfound friend, I have written more than I intended, but as I continued I found the desire to write increase. I fear that I have trespassed too long, and pray your forgiveness. Sometime I should like to come and write of the errors of some of the teachings of earth, or rather of the Truths along the line of the subject matter of my earthly writings, as I now know them to be.

I am in what is called the intellectual planes of the Fifth Sphere. Very near the entrance to the Sixth Sphere, in which I hope to be in a short time. It has been a long time since I left the earth life. The early period of my existence in the spirit world was one of stagnation. As I now see, merely because I brought with me many of the doctrines of the philosophy of my earth life. As a consequence, I continued my research along the ideas and ways that I had pursued as a mortal. The time thus spent was long, and continued, until I became convinced that speculation in the spirit life is not very different and arrives at no more satisfactory end, than speculation on earth. Then I stopped speculating and waited for something, I know not what. Strange to say, that which came to me was from a spirit who had never heard of my philosophy, or any other philosophy on earth, but merely accepted Truth as it gradually came to him, without knowing why, or how. I soon learned that he had a greater Knowledge of the Verities than had I. So I adopted his way of receiving Truth. Since then I have been progressing, and am now advancing with accelerated speed, and all to my happiness and intellectual enjoyment.

Good-bye, your friend, Spinoza.
Prayer must arise from the soul of humans. The response must come from God. There is no other means by which this Knowledge can be obtained. All Knowledge of things spiritual, that humans think they possess, coming in any other way cannot be relied upon. There is only One Source of such knowledge out of which the Real Spiritual Truths of God emanate.

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Re: The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. 03 Feb 2011 13:30 #3947

  • Dan
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The dichotomy of the mind/soul is a bit confusing for some as it would appear that they are separate when in fact they not. The soul has a higher and lower nature and therefore a higher and lower mind. Some say they need to transcend their mind and get into their soul however the real truth is; we are always operating from either the material mind or the spiritual mind of the soul. It sounds like we talk about being in our mind and the great object is to be in our soul. We are always in our soul because we can't detach ourselves from our self. Perhaps the better explanation is; are we operating from our higher or lower nature, both of which are a soulful state? And further, as our higher nature/spiritual mind becomes dominant our lower nature/material mind becomes subordinate.

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Re: The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. 03 Feb 2011 16:29 #3953

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Thanks for posting that Dave, I read it many years ago but had forgotten all about it.
I have now published it on this website, as it is an important message even though he was not in the celestial spheres.
What he talks about, the reasoning mind, is one of the great barriers we need to overcome before we can come to a realisation that we are soul and a creation.

This world, where the cold intellect rules and soulful love is subordinated and even despised, the mind was just an instrument to be used but has become the master of the soul, the mind cannot love, but the soul can! it seems we have been given a choice by the creator of that soul and mind.

Blessings, Ian

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Re: The soul is to the spiritual things of God what the mind is to the material things of God. 03 Feb 2011 19:28 #3954

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Yes Ian, i have always found this message a powerful reminder to attempt to question the veracity of my own mind and its supposed knowledge of truth. A reminder to pray, and pray and pray, then to "be still" and wait for the inspirations of the Celestial Spirits and the Greatest Spirit of all, the Holy Spirit, to deliver to my souls perceptions an understanding of a Truth of God, as all Truth is God's Truth.

This message will be reviled by those that think the mind and reasoning is all powerful, because it will produce great conflict between the minds and souls of those that have a dependency on the mind and its reasoning powers, insufficient to Spiritual Truth.

i no longer consider the mind as good or evil, but as a neutral thing, if you will, that may embrace the positive thoughts of love and lovingness, to the benifit of the whole being and in harmony, or as conditioned or programed by the overwhelming history of human thought in the thoughts and beliefs in the perverted ideas of power, control, possession, recognition. etc. that are inherited, and as indicated in other messages, trace their genesis back as far as the first parents and the causes to the "first sin", false pride and perverted desire, that create the disharmony in the individual life, as well as the disharmonies of the whole of humankind.

So the mind or spirit is just a channel or instrument. As Daniel says, the sin is committed in the soul. The use of the free will in accord with the unloving inherited, learned, programed thoughts and beliefs, or in accord with our experience of practicing new, more loving and truthful thoughts and beliefs.

The Divine Love is the Greatest Power in both regards, as it fills the soul, it will create conflict with the minds thoughts and beliefs in error and untruth, an afford one the power and souls perceptions of the truth of the minds thoughts and beliefs in error and untruth. Also the innate desires of the soul to give and receive love . Well the page seems to be indicating that i cannot write more, so with my love to all, brother dave k.
Prayer must arise from the soul of humans. The response must come from God. There is no other means by which this Knowledge can be obtained. All Knowledge of things spiritual, that humans think they possess, coming in any other way cannot be relied upon. There is only One Source of such knowledge out of which the Real Spiritual Truths of God emanate.

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